I haven't made up my mind,yet, as to what I support, because each time I reach a conclusion, another question pops up.
The existence of death penalty as such. Everyone wants revenge, if and when they are victimized. Revenge might be too harsh a word... The victim wants to see justice done. Who wouldn't? But, is death the answer? I'm not talking about you wanting to kill the person for having done whatever he/she has done to you... Not the "in the heat of the moment" killing..... Wouldn't you want the person to suffer? Is death the way to achieve that?
Reason.Doesn't everyone have a reason for everything? What if this person had had reason enough? What if the court (if and when) did give him a death sentence, and later on it was proved by family, friends, whoever... That if reality the wrong person had been convicted would a compensation be enough? Adequate?More often than not the truth never reaches the ears of the jury members or the judge. I think it has something to do with the mass of white hair that covers his ears???? Who is the jury to decide whether or not to end someone's life, based on what is ironically called evidence. Nope, I don't want to play the "what if" game. The point I wanted to make is who are we to decide whether or not this other person should live or not?
You may argue that there just couldn't be any REASON. That no person has the right to mutilate someone else's body, hurt someone, etc.But then who are you to sentence him to death? For example, this girl saw a crime being committed, say a rape. This girl, who saw it happen, was affected so much, that it made her spite the entire population of men. Suppose she started killing men, who took a sincere interest in her? Would you sentence her to death? Would you sentence her to life imprisonment? Or would you try and rehabilitate her. Try to get her counseling, make her see what she was doing. Yes, make her pay, because she DID take the life of innocent men.... But that doesn't make her entirely at fault, or does it?
The advocation of death penalty in cases of rape. Rape happens to be the most heinous of crimes that can be committed. The lady on TV correctly put it as " murder of the soul ". I agree. But the victim, with appropriate guidance and support can live life again. Why a "can"? It's a definitive, IF the guidance and support are given in the manner required and IF we, the society, started acting like the educated "humans" we are supposed to be. But, then if we did act as humans, I wouldn't be thinking the way I am right now (and you wouldn't be listening to me rambling) Can't the victim be made to realize his fault? Made to repent? Given a chance to correct his folly? Made to pay for what he has done, but also given a chance to change his ways? I don't mean to be pitying the rapist. But death? End his life? May be I AM from the old school of thought, but how wrong am I? (not the school that believed in death... :D)
For example, if a person who has committed a crime, any crime, is identified and sentenced to say, 7 years of prison. And 7 years in a prison, where he is allowed to his cell phone, 'cuz more often than not the people committed are "gundas", loosely translated with a touch of dramatists, have connections,Mafia. So, this convict, lives in luxury for 7 years, and when he comes out , he seeks revenge. So, it's better if u sentence him to death, right? What if I were not talking about the "Hindi-movie-type-convicts" ? What if this convict was a normal ( yeah, then he wouldn't be called what I am calling him, but u know I don't mean the word literarily) middle-class person who had whatever reasons to do what he did. What if he were sent to a jail, which was a jail? The kind that makes u do social work, and is harsh, so as to make you realize that u were wrong. When, this person comes out, I'm sure instead of seeking revenge, he'd want to start life afresh. But, would we, the society allow that to happen? Nope, we'd remind him at every step of who he was, what he did, even if he no longer is the same person. So, death penalty was a better option?
The fact that most cases of rape occur within the family and are hushed up because of what we the society call "izzat", loosely translated, self-respect, status of the family in the society. The fact that even if and when cases are reported, it takes years for them to even go to court because if the lady on TV was right with her numbers there are 56,000 cases of rape that have yet to be even taken to court, that Dhananjay was the first person in 14 years to have been given the death penalty, even though it was more for the fact that he killed the victim. It has to be proven without doubt that a person is the guilty of the crime before he is sentenced to death. How often do u think it possible that the right person is taken to the gallows? Please do consider factors such as him being the minister's son, the minister himself, money, social status, publicity, more money... So, what does that make us? Fools?
The next logical step of thought would be to blame the judicial system. It never fails to amaze me how a slick-talking-money-eating "lawyer" manages to turn the scene inside out, upside down (or do I mean inside down and upside out?). But then I would have to blame the judge (with long hair) for falling for the nonsense. There are loads of people I could blame but what's the use? If I were to even blame myself for just sitting and watching the "finesse" with which the lawyer handled the case... MY lawyer would use HIS legal jagaron and get me out of the situation.... No offence to aspiring lawyers (phew. I hope that clears me out legally) . SO.... I won't waste my breath....
First you don't even report a crime. If u do, you might be lucky ( or unlucky) enough to go to court in your lifetime, then you, your grandchildren ( I won't take chances with your great grandchildren) will all keep going to court. And after that IF the person ( who might be dead by then) is convicted, your going to live in fear that the day he comes out he'll come seeking revenge. If not him then maybe someone close to this person you have helped convict. So you live in fear. So if you didn't report the crime, you'd most probably still live in fear, though the chances that your great-great-great grandchildren will all live is greater...
The fact that cases as such are dealt with with severe insensitivity on the part of the police, lawyers, jury, etcetera etcetera. The fact that where there should be respect for the victim's guts to even go against the rapist (in this case) there is condemnation on the part of the society. People are looked down upon. They are said to be tainted and made to live with "guilt ", for what? I still can't figure it out. Guilt for what having being the victim? As for the convict... If he has been made to serve is sentence, then why punish him even more?
I would be sounding overly optimistic, if I said that every person convicted would turn over a new leaf. But there is a COULD. Every person, no matter after how long, DOES realize reason and does repent. So, do you take the chance or not? Do you just kill him, forget about the ifs and buts and pay uncivilized behavior with uncivilized behavior? Like "shyshe" put it, though in a different context, " You hit me and I hit you back."
Back to NDTV... There were suggestions, in the case of rape, to castrate the convict... In a more dramatists way to inject him with HIP positive and then publicly hang him a year later.... A more filmi version being marrying off the victim and the convict.... WHICH has been done... I know they all sound tempting... But its the you hit me with a stone and I hit you back with a rock version of "you hit me and I hit you back"...
So, I've managed to get even more confused and confuse you more too. Or that's what we'd like to think 'cues IF we did find the reason, the crux of the matter.... We'd put our lawyers to use, and not do anything because "that isn't for us to do... Why should I take the risk?".... If we all thot that way....??? Then crime would remain crime and the outer-galactic-creatures who called us "humans" would just have to redefine the meaning of the word.... So it's their problem, right?
i agree a teeny meeny bit with u. but i think u have dragged ur article. and i srtongly feel tht all those men who rape women should be castrated and killed. and hullo? plz wake up sci and tech has improved so much tht by any chance they cannot hang the wrong person. i feel tht those looser cheapsters who rape women should be hung and if a sensible middle class person rapes a girl then he shud be given physchiatric treatment coz he has definately lost it.
even i'd agree with the castration part... but we LIVE in society where humanity exists. You can't reply uncivilised behavior with the same.
So what if sci can prove a person wrong? Firstly, its expensive. Secondly, it takes TIME and leaves people emotionally bereft. And with a judicial system like ours where money and status take precendence to TRUTH... do u really believe the RIGHT person will be convicted in HIS LIFETIME?
... the 'not letting a person live, so that he doesn't commit the same crime again'... sounds a lil gruesome... i was talking along the lines of making the person pay so he doesn't repeat his folly. I know its not always possible... but its not always impossible either. We did give the judge, etc the right to differentiate between right and wrong... but what value does our faith in them have when compared with cash, status...????
If i we go with the "who is to blame" trip... u end up with only one answer.US. but we've got lawyers, right?
....thanx for READING the nonsense i blabbered....!
Heard of Lorena Bobbit, Kiranjit Ahluwalia...took law into their own hands and gave the perpetuators of abuse and violence against them a taste of their own medicine...Well, I am of the opinion that anyone who trespasses the rights of others needs to be reprimanded in a manner befitting the crime commited so that there is no next time...for the same to recur! Well written!
I'd like to reply to what 'baani' said. More specifically:
"i feel tht those looser cheapsters who rape women should be hung and if a sensible middle class person rapes a girl then he shud be given physchiatric treatment coz he has definately lost it."
That is,singularly, one of the most stupid things I've heard in a long while. By that statement, do you mean that middle class men are all more sane than lower class men?? So it is: Death for all lower class men and counselling for all middle class men. That is a racist and discriminatory statement, and the very fact that you said something so ignorant, negates your point of view. Even so, I'd like to continue discussing your enlightened point.
"and hullo? plz wake up sci and tech has improved so much tht by any chance they cannot hang the wrong person."
I suppose you think that by now, outside your bedroom window,lies waiting for you your own little spacecraft waiting to transport you to solar system x-13? Wake up ignoramus, what if the rapist wore a condom? does the victim have a video camera in her hair?Without dna from the semen, "sci-fi" is virtually stumped.
Please, before you post a comment on such a sensitive issue, be sure to know what you're talking about.
And back to the original point. I am For the enforcement of the death penalty. But in my opinion, the merits of every individual case have to be taken into account. Preetika, you're being a little Naive when you say that all people can be reformed. What if the rapist is a demented maniac or a deranged lunatic? As I see it, the objective of the death penalty is to ensure that the same person does not commit the same crime again, or in other words, to save other lives. Again, it is very risque to say that everybody can be reformed. YOU CAN NOT generalise. Everybody is different. Are you willing to take that chance?
...and what if he isnt a "raving lunatic".... im nt saying "no death penalty" at all... i mean where it is deserved it shud be given.. but if u read the law.. it says that "until and unless it has been proven without any doubt that the person being put to stand is at fault" .. death penalty is NOT even a minor option... and u think the "truth" is ever gnna reach the court....???? im being naive?
...and im nt making a STATEMENT.. im jst thinking.. trying to figure out a solution... read what i've written again... follow the thot process... and tell me what u think...
thanx for reading it btw
What you have said and what I have said pk, are precisely the same thing.
Merits of the case meaning that every case is different.And, whats the point if we keep on saying that our legal system may be wrong?? I think our legal system has to be given trust, if it is to be succesful. If it is going to be wrong most of the time, as you have said, then what is the point of having verdicts at all?If they are wrong by default?
hey shyshe and demand............ ok shyshe ur comment was enlightening as i dint think a bit about the stuff u mentioned and i guess i was completely wrong. anyway i would just say that i was wrong and i agree with what preetika and you say
..... i knw u get no where without "trust"... we keep blaming it but do nothing about it... i'm not trying to find fault.. im as proud of everything that "we" stand for as you are... there's jst some people who have no integrity, sense of loyalty, and patriotism. they think money,money,money. and like the saying goes "one bad apple can spoil the whole lot.." it dsnt happen ALL the time.. that the wrng person goes to the stand... what im saying is that IF it happd, THEN wudnt the death sentence be stupid? 'cuz it DOES happen.....
finnallllly!!!! some one who thinks i've written "it" well.... :D ...
.... the 'cell phone' part wasn't used literarily.., i mean yeah it was, but its more to pt out the fact that there are priviliges available to the "influenced" better ( or is it worse?) half of society... who come out and REPEAT the crime...
...it is important that we realise what really is happening and not live behind the facade that that , 'these things happen' or 'look at the bright side'... there shudne be a BAD side at all...! which is what made me write in the first place... im sure our lawyers can find better cases to fight...!! why not not try to wiggle out of this and do something abt it?? we've got aliens, who might decide to call us something other than "human", to fear of... :D
..thanx for taking time to read it...
Who can we trust?
India has this major problem of corruption. Evidence can be destroyed, sentences can be reduced, and policemen can be bought with money. In a system like this, justice is extremely hard to deal fairly. The fact is, we have to make the best of this imperfect system as we correct it. In any case, it doesn't look like it's improving too fast, and rapists and murderers aren't going to wait until the system is perfect to commit their crimes.
The ideal solution to deal with all criminals is to lock them up, and then give them counselling, so they change their ways. Remember I said "ideal solution". This is practically impossible, especially in a country like India. When children are dying of starvation, who's going to fund counselling?
Death Penalty has never proven to be a deterrent. In fact, in this case, it might even stimulate greater forms of crime. This is where I strongly disagree with the "Murder of the soul" woman. Would you rather be raped or raped and murdered?
If death penalty is made a general punishment for all rapists, then there is a greater chance of the victim of the rape to also be murdered by the rapist. This is because death penalty is the highest form of punishment. The rapist knows that after committing the rape, murder won't make any difference. The punishment can't get any worse. He won't hesitate to do this because if he murders his victim, he has a greater chance of staying alive, as the victim can't possibly report him if he/she is dead. This means he may be able to escape the death penalty with greater ease if he murders his victim.
Kaushik
...exaaactly what i wanted to say... !!!
thnx for reading the mess..
This sounds extremely humorous to me. What Kaushik is trying to say is that - Death punsihment should be removed so that a rapist does not turn murderer? This sounds absurd to me. And PK agrees with it!are you trying to say that rape is not as big a crime as murder? Of course it is. There are many who don't wish to stay alive after they are raped.
The fact that flaws exist in judiciary system cannot used to justify that capital punsihemnt is wrong. Maybe capital punishment shouldn't be adopted if we're not sure is adequate info is collected regarding a rape or a murder. However, the concept of capital punishment must be kept in mind & it should be used in CERTAIN CASES.
As I said earlier, the law is not giving a rapist death sentence to PUNISH HIM, but to ensure that there is no possibility of hisrepeating the crime in the future.
And Kaushik has managed to fit in a lot of nonsense in that small comment of his. "Would you rather be raped, or raped & murdered". This is a stoopid thing to say. Rape is as big a crime as murder. Rape can lead to suicide of the victom, if not killed by the rapist himself. Rape is indeed 'Murder of soul' and every rapist is murderer.
"If death penalty is made a general punishment for all rapists, then there is a greater chance of the victim of the rape to also be murdered by the rapist". This is not entirely true. Rapists fear life imrisonment as much as they fear death penalty. Many cases o rape end with murder, whether or not the rapist/murderer knows what the law has in store for him.
...in legal terms, a person cannot be sentenced to death until and unless proven without doubt that he is the criminal.
With whatever flaws that exit in our system, do u think there'd be enuf to prove a person guilty "without doubt"... if so then how come in 14 bloddy years, ONE person has been sentenced with the death penalty? And he was sent to the gallows, because of the involvement of murder.
To prove a person guitly, the victim has to identify and testify against the convict.IF the victim were "murdered" there'd be no question. Also, since when did life imprisonment mean LIFE IMPRISONMENT here??? dnt kid yourself...
When considering "murder of the soul" there is a chance for the victim to see justice done, and a chance for her to live her life again. Also, death needn't be the only way to see that a person dsnt commit the same crime again... better than depending on our judicial system, why not depend on the person's soul? Make him suffer, learn where he went wrong and then if circumstances seem to sugest a change, give the guy a fair chance... If humans don't make mistakes, then who will?
dhruva!!
everyone is not as dumb as me... at least im hoping so... there is something called as expert opinion..? and people called as psychologists... im not saying give every1 a chance... im saying give the ppl who deserve a chance... there are alot of reasons for what one does ... sometimes they are reason enuf sometimes they aren't...
it's a better option than jst aadding another case to the 52,000 already pending..!! its better than 7 years of imprisionment, also called life imprisonment in India.. its better than not giving the victim's a chnce to live for no fault of theirs.... right?
..i know what im thinking. There IS a slack in the judicial system. I don't not trust the system entirely.
What you are forgetting is that when im talking capital punishment,im quoting for the 1000th time, "NO person can be sentenced to death until and unless it is proven without any doubt that he/she is guilty." These are not my words, but those of a leading advocate.
So, you can't just dish it out to everyone who u think deserves it or who everyone thinks deserves it.
Recently, a 2 and a half year old kid was molested at Sunny Brook by a 65 year old man at 9:00 AM. The immediate reaction of a person is to wish the old man dead. Here, it is absoultely right. But, there will never be enough proof to sentence him to death. Max life imprisonment. Which will be reduced to abt 6-7 years considering stupid reasons. IS THAT JUSTICE?? When the girl grows up, she's gnna want to know what they did to punish the old fart (thats what he is). When u send a person to prison, the aim is to PUNISH. So, punish then. Punish properly. Since death is a very minor option, im looking at other ways. I am NOT saying "no death penalty at all"... i'm saying IT CANNOT BE GIVEN OUT ON A REGULAR BASIS, no matter how appropriate it is of the crime committed, not according to me, but according to the laws that govern this country.
When I say "reason enuf" I mean the person being mentally handicapped, suffering from some form of injustice himself.. in other words emotional trauma. I cited an example in my blog. Read it.THat is when death needn't be the only option. Healthy and just treatment of the situation is what is called for.
Either you face the situation and try to find out a more effective solution or you become one of those people/ bodies that live by their own perogative and defy the constituition in the name of Personal law.
Dhruva,
Even according to you, only "most" people would want to die after being raped. What about those who want to stay alive?
"many" fear life imprisonment as much as death penalty. What about the rest? the reason that a rapist would probably kill his victim is because his victim is a witness. If he kills the witness, he has a greater chance of getting away with the crime altogether.
Rape may be murder of the soul, but a few people would be glad to escape without having their lives taken as well.
Kaushik
...now only if Dhruva can see the point i am trying to make!!
Kaushik,
Are you trying to say that abolishment of capital punishment will wipe out the chances of murder taking place after a rape? And PK, do you know what exactly you're agreeing with or are you agreeing with Kaushik because his opinion differs from mine??
dhruva,
Firstly,i dnt agree with a person jst because he disagree's with you. First read what i've written in all the comments after what you posted yesterday night... and THEN, if u disagree let me know...!!!
Secondly, i'm suggesting that there WILL be an increase in the chances of the victim getting murdered, because she is the only one who can identify the convict. And im quoting for the 1001st time that death penalty can't be given unless and until it is proven without a trace of doubt that the person at stand IS GUILTY.. phew!!!
I never said that Capital Punishment should be wiped out altogether. It just shouldn't be a generalised sentence for all people convicted of rape. Penalties such as the death penalty should be used with discretion. Never make a generalisation of such things. Never make a law that all rapists must be killed. That can't result in any good.
Kaushik
when did i say capital punishment shud be wiped out all together?...may be i've been speaking latin???
whats the point of having death penalty, namesake, when u can't apply it? In this case at least!
..just because kaushik said it you have to agree and jst because i said it u have to disagree..??